@orion
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Hi Ollie,
I looked at your refit album. Work looked great! Looks like a meticulous process. I’d love to see the finished album.
Regards,
michael (on Orion)Hi all,
My heart goes out to everyone dealing with aging teak decks. I don’t face this with Orion, hull 52. But, I have removed teak decks on 22 boats, Baltics, Cheoy Lee’s, Swanns, and a Hylas. We absolutely do NOT let the owners observe the work. It’s far too brutal. GRP underdecks take our 3 man crew a single day, to strip.
Resurfacing and bolstering the GRP is the preferred replacement. We’ve tried stamping gelcoat, for tread. But kiwigrip is a good product. Limits recoating to more kiwigrip.
Replacing the wood is done in troughs, using recent adhesives, and 100 pound lead ingots. The result is a contemporary look.
And it’s all hideously expensive.
Hi Marilyn
I use 12v village Marine. It produces 12 Gph, using very little amperage. I mounted the unit, supply pump and 2 filters under port v berth. Added a couple of access hatches. I run it when the aux is running. 25 gal day tank is at the bottom of the standing locker.
Hi Folks
Removing the vinyl, on the bulkheads, was one of the first things I did, after finding Orion. Underneath is an exceptionally pretty grained mahogany plywood. It is NOT a veneer plywood. The surface mahogany ply is thick enough to clean and sand safely. The mahogany bulkheads as well as the teak trim, are oiled, with a recipe of linseed, turpentine and a little epiphanes.
I wouldn’t hesitate, for a second, to tear out every shred of vinyl AND that antique Formica.
michael
OrionI manage 4 boats with 4-108’s, and have delivered around a dozen more, powered by one. The 4-108 is a great motor. I would go way out of my way to maintain, rather than replace one of them. But the 4-107 is a very different beast. Parts are difficult to find. No rebuild kits exist. The unsleaved block does not machine well. They become weazy, oil-dripping dinosaurs. One version of the 4-107 has an ingenious oil cooler/heat exchanger combination. But it’s just not a reliable motor. Also the Thames marine gearbox, that was paired with the 4-107 is hopelessly obsolete, and very difficult to service.
Hey all. I assumed everyone had the 4-107, as original equipment. It’s not a great motor..really just a suped up 4-90. I switched over to a 48hp Ford Lehman, with a crash box, in 2003, and though I wouldn’t recommend it to others, it has worked out really well for Orion. 6.4 knts at 1700rpm..burns 1 liter per hour. It was not the easiest repower I’ve done..had to fabricate mounts and power transfer plate.
michael
OrionIn a previous posting I detailed the $75 solution..bought a used 25 gallon abs cube tank, dropped into the space under the stbd settee, just on the other side of the bulkhead, from the head. We use the one existing through-hull for direct discharge, as well as discharge returned from the tank, by a mascerator pump. A manifold, with three large ball valves varies the flow direction/choice. I’ve added another hose, up to a deck fitting, for pump-out. We get boarded and dye-tested routinely, in Southern CA.
Hi Gerhard
I love the sails..love that full batten main. I notice that you have reef points and jiffy reefing. Did you ever roll the boom? This is an open question to the group..Does anyone use the rolling boom, still?
michael
OrionHi Marilyn
I haven’t had to rebuild Orion’s rudder…yet. But I have built several race boat rudders. A particularly challenging one, was a teardrop shape, that had to accommodate a 4″ rudder stock. If I were you, I would make a mold, and start from scratch. There are so many more advanced materials available these days. A completely new construction avoids having to match 40 yr old technology. I went down below and looked at the rudder, today. It appears to be a straight line taper, from the stock, to the trailing edge. That would be an easy mold, to make.
I was recently in your neck o the woods, Anacortes and visited the shop that built Ellison’s tri-maran. You should see how they build the centerboards, that the current 70′ cats, are hydroplaning on top of!! The material strengths are mind-boggling!
Good luck with that repair. I have to find out more about the Nic 38’s lower rudder bearing, so I can pre -make a replacement before I haul Orion, in the spring.
michael
OrionJohn,
The differences can be stunning. Aquarius’s nav table is all business. When you mentioned “old school”, I was expecting the 50 year-old B&G instruments, Orion still had, when I found her. Here’s a contrast, for you..Orion’s nav and engineering table. When I purchased Orion, my friends, fellow racers in hi-tech J-105 and Farr 40 classes, teased me about being the owner of a “furniture boat”. I decided to embrace the moniker. Here, the computer screen can be tipped up, or relocated to the aft cabin, entirely, where there is also a NEMA patch. All the radar, chartplotting, auto-pilot control and engine monitor software, are on both laptops. (that’s the spare, off to the left) Of course, this is all a generation old, already, as many boats have WiFi and totally portable tablet controller/plotter/monitors. (My boat still requires me to hoist and trim the sails, for it.)
Note: That’s a book about the pre-war J-boats, on the table. It features the Charles Nicholson designs, from the Shamrocks, to the Endeavours. (I’ve seen Shamrock V race, informally, against two other remaining J’s)Regards,
michael
Orion
(hopefully Marilyn can add the photos)My experience, in W. Falmouth, a dogleg harbor, with tall trees around, and plenty of taller masts, was that lightning was unpredictable. It would bypass trees and tall aluminum masts, and hit what it hit, randomly. Lightning couldn’t seem to figure out the best conductor, and it hit in a physical way, like a sledgehammer..not electrically. It would physically blast a hole in a boat’s bottom..not melt or burn it. I’m not fully aware of how lightning damages electronics, through surges. But that wasn’t important if all the electronics was under 10 feet of salt water. I was aboard my boat, there, when hurricane Gloria hit Buzzards Bay. It was the only time I’ve ridden out a hurricane, aboard. That’s why I live in So. Cal., now.
Orion sails Southern California and Baja waters. I haven’t seen lightning, in 20 years. However, I had a molded keel Pearson 24, when I was living off of Cape Cod. A neighbor’s boat, with a keel stepped mast, and grounding to a keel bolt, still had a square foot hole punched through his fiberglass hull, by a lightning strike. Apparently, the paint on the keel prevented grounding. So, I kept 10 feet of #2 braided copper cable, on a hook, at the base of my mast, and just threw it over the side, when there was any threat. Not elegant..but the locals claimed it was the only sure way. I’ve heard that splitting a cable, from the mast, to a couple of bronze thru-hull fittings, can help minimize the damage.
Hey all!
The $75 solution was locating a storebought, 20 gallon, cube-shaped ABS tank under the starboard saloon settee, just on the other side of the bulkhead, from the W.C. Easy to install/remove, and still close to the centerline, of the boat. The real cost is prime the storage space
michael
OrionHi John
I like reading these variety of solutions, you’re getting. On Orion I chose the middle path. I’ve tried to preserve the original equipment, where practical. I’ve retained the original, though quaint, fused wire panel. It’s been repurposed, to handle only house lighting and fans. Since I use mostly fluorescent tubes and LED bulbs, the old box handles relatively low amps.
The box has been moved several inches inboard, on the same bulkhead, making room for a new breaker panel next to it, on the outboard side. The new panel is only slightly recessed, and is not readily visible, from the saloon.
This panel handles all the mechanical functions..breakers for things like refrigeration, and autopilot, 12v outlets, service pumps, et al, as well as breakers for a couple of busses to remote sub panels. There’s a switch panel for the running lights and deck spotlights adjacent to the binnacle, and a fuse panel, in the binnacle’s base, for all the steering station instruments and lighting. On Orion, the VHF, depth, small chartplotter, AIS, and radar are on or in the binnacle, along with the autopilot panel.
On the narrow panel, under the chart table, are three battery switches, a 5-input voltage gauge(3 batt banks, charger/alt output, solar/wind regulator output), inverter controls, and a charger source distribution panel, that allows simultaneous pairing of one of the three charging sources, with any battery bank.
The bilge pumps and 8″ school bell alarm, have a direct, fused connection to a house battery. There’s a fourth battery, a small 24 group, with its own mini panel, that acts as a short term backup, for the refrigeration, and bilge pumps, only.
The additional breaker panels, fuse blocks and switch panels are all Blue Sea Systems, with a couple of Marinco and West Marine brand thrown in. I’d stick with Blue Sea, where possible.
The most important safety feature of Orion’s electrical upgrade, is the elimination of wire bundles that contain both positive and ground wires, particularly duplex wires. This eliminates the possibility of wire jacket disruptions causing a dangerous short.
I hope there are a few useful ideas in there.
michael
Hey Everyone!
Wow! I’m floored by the numbers being tossed around, here. I know the intrinsic value of the Nic 38, but am still trying to get used to these prices. Orion was purchased for 8k US. It was a fair price, for an essentially abandoned boat. The Nic 38, I just found, in Berkeley Harbor, on San Fran Bay(see Marilyn’s post for “mystery Nic 38), would get a 5k US opening offer, from me. I’d go as high as 8k, but no more. I’m close to finding the owner, of it. I think I’m developing a knack, for finding abandoned Nic 38s! I’ve got my eyes open, for a third!
michael
OrionHi Charles
I recently posted a photo of the new davits, we added to Orion. They are teak and hickory laminates. I don’t recommend this path to folks who don’t enjoy constant maintenance! The replacement was necessitated by the return to a British dinghy, with an 8′ Avon RIB, which is nearly 5′ wide! I had to add 6″ to the length of the old davits. We use an old, very compact 15 hp Evinrude, that we lift with a beefed up mizzen boom topping lift rig, used as a derrick crane. The mizzen boom’s overhang makes this work conveniently. While a relaxed sail, in the Walker Bay looks like fun, our favorite anchorage, on Catalina Island is several miles, from the nearest harbor, with provisions. The 15hp motor gets us back to the boat, before the ice cream box even starts to sweat! I solved the lateral rocking problem, by installing 2 fixed length mini painters, from the stem and transom, that clip to the center A frame, through an eyelet, on each davit.
michael
on OrionOn Orion I used a much smaller pump, a Rule 1500, at the bottom of the bilge, rigged similarly. It’s a low amperage draw, for typical service. Then, on a stainless shelf, rigged below the motor pan, is a 3700. It is wired by relay, to a 8″ school bell, as a high water alarm, in the binnacle. The bell is clearly audible for about 1/3 mile. (for when I’m ashore) The bell is also rigged to the low oil pressure switch, so I’ll wake up, if I’m asleep while motoring on autopilot. I’m trying to figure out how to add the proximity alarm, on our AIS system, to the bell inputs, as well.
I think using the term beautiful is overstating it, but I’ll take frugal. The teak and hickory davits cost $350. (mostly to polish the stainless bases.
That isn’t pretty, but I wish Orion looked that good, when I found her. Orion’s owner hadn’t seen her in more than 5 years and had NOT provided for her upkeep. The hardtop was gone. The yard housing her had built a ramp down to the aft cabin, and was using the main rig, as a derrick crane, to lift motors out of other boats.
