Auto pilots

We have the Neco, the PO said that he had it rebuilt by Raytheon (nb: I formerly mistakenly said “Raymarine”, and have since corrected this posting), who are now the owners of what was originally Neco (if I understand correctly). Last year, the purchase surveyor was surprised when the PO said it still worked. The surveyor made some comment like “that would be the only one left working on the west coast (of the US) then”.

We can tell you that our Neco works great. We don’t use it often, and rarely use it under sail because it seems to require a lot of power to run. We have the original documentation, which we could copy if that would help anyone. We don’t have any receipts from the rebuild, so cannot help in understanding which bits required work to keep it running.

Rainshadow also came with a Monitor windvane. We’ve not installed it yet, but it seems all the bits are there and we have the documentation for it. We hope to have a reason to try it next year. The PO said the vane does get in the way of the mizzen, but he would just push the paddle down when it was time to change course, and then reset the paddle again. They used the Monitor for 3 years (in late 80’s) during a passage from PNW (US) to Australia.

They rigged the Monitor so control lines operated the actual helm; they did not connect to the rudder post at the aft deck. So to reinstall the Monitor, we need to pull the helm wheel and reattached a fixture that allows the control lines to steer the helm. The attachment from this fixture to the helm wheel is via a pin that sticks through a hole at top dead center of the wheel near the hub – apparently the helmsman can easily disengage this pin to resume manual control of the helm. We also need to rerun the control lines through the fairleads that lead the lines from the aft deck, along the port side, into the cockpit. I’m sure it will be fiddly to get set up, but the PO said it worked great and was very pleased with it. I doubt he used it much in the last 15 years, though. At least the attachment points on the stern are still there, as are the fairleads on the stancions. We look forward to trying it.
Marilyn

On the subject of autopilots, and steering, I now have a spare electric Raymarine rotary drive/ sprocket and chain for connection to the shaft steering system, having changed mine to an Hydrive hydraulic. My autopilot (Raymarine ST7000) isolates the steering wheel by means of solenoid switches in its hydraulic lines and activates a small hydraulic pump which squirts oil down to the drive cylinder attached to the rudder shaft.

In the long term I look forward to installing a wind vane of some sort and there have been some interesting posts on this topic in the past. Have you access to them Marilyn, or do you want me to post/send them to you?

It would be good to be able to post pictures!

Adrian.

Hi Mike,

Just a comment about the “30 deg. out” statement you made. That might mean one or more of your compasses needs adjusting. Have you ever had a compass “swung”? I don’t know how this is done on the Neco compass, which sits under the settee just abaft the mast. It might also mean your trim control (top left) has some kind of offset.

Our NECO about 10-20 degrees off vs the binnacle compass, but it seems to depend on the direction. That’s close enough that the error we have in setting it is probably not much less than that. In other words, we read the compass and set the Neco to the same and then switch it on, but actually both are off enough that we always have to adjust it again or use the trim control to get it right.

I experimented a bit with using it to tack – basically, you have to set the sensitivity control (the bottom right one) to the correct speed so that it doesn’t turn too fast. Then, you just quickly rotate the dial 90 degrees in the direction you want to tack, and the autopilot will slowly turn the boat while you handle the sheets. It seems to work.

It’s a pity it is such a power hog.

Van

Hi

Ronar still has the original Neco autopilot which works faultlessly. ‘Arnold'(the autohelm) took us down to Spain and back across the bay of Biscay in 2008 and we had the fridge on full time as well. No need to run the engine much as the solar panels coped with the demands. In a F8 gale on the way back we had to had steer for one night as the wind was right behind us and ‘Arnold’ could not cope.

I find that Ronar will steer herself a lot of the time without a hand on the wheel or the autohelm on. This is a new thing for her and I put it down to a new genoa this season which is so much more efficient than the old one and balances the main and mizzen much better. I sometimes lash the wheel with a bit of helm on to counter the slight weatherhelm but in lighter winds even this is not necessary and she just goes on happily by herself with no lashing.

Cheers

Trevor

I finally scanned the Neco auto pilot manual, you can find it on the Equipment Manuals page.

If this external website is still active, they had some additional Neco documentation scans, including some additional electrical schematics.

Remember, that useful document that Mike (angelsson) mentions from Daniel the Physicist is already available on our About the Nic 38> Equipment Manuals page.

Also, higher in this thread, I mention an external website that has electrical schematics, etc.

Hi Jean-Guy,

Are you saying that the AP22 responds to SSB transmissions, or are you saying the SSB picks up noise from the AP22? I think you are saying the former.

Remember, fixing this kind of interference is a black art. You just have to try different tricks. Keep notes of what you tried…. It’s not clear whether what you are seeing is HF RF pickup, or surges induced in the power systems. Do any other of your electrical systems interfere with the AP22? For instance, when the fridge switches on, does your AP22 respond? Or to an inverter? Or windlass?

To figure out if the problem is HF RF pickup:

1) Turn down the RF transmit power on your radio and see if the problem reduces or goes away. This is not definitive evidence because this also changes the power load your radio uses.

2) Get a “dummy load” for your antenna tuner output. This is a device that screws in to your tuner in place of the antenna. Transmit into this dummy load at the max power it can handle, and see if the problem goes away. If it does not, the problem is probably power related. If it does go away, it’s probably RF pickup related. You can buy dummy loads for about $25 from Ham radio sources or on eBay. Some of them are aircooled and require a fan, typically using 120V AC. If you only use it for short periods (a few minutes), then just don’t plug the fan in.

Some tricks to try:

If the problem is HF RF pickup:

Ensure that no cables run near to and parallel to any of the HF wires (especially the run from the tuner output to the antenna connection because this is unshielded, not coax). Always keep lines spaced as far apart as you can, and if they must cross keep them perpendicular.

Add RF chokes to all of the power and control lines as close to the AP22 as you can. Check Ham shops for these, they are inexpensive a few dollars each, so get extras.

Rewire the AP22 power cables and use twisted pair wire in which the + and – wires are wrapped around each other (sheilded if you can get it in the appropriate gauge). The wires to the compass should already have suitable RF shielding. (you may want to check the shield is properly grounded at one end).

Consider detaching your RF system from ground by using a counterpoise instead of a ground connection at your tuner. (Radio power must use the battery ground, but the antenna output can be detached – but it still needs to be balanced, and this can be done with wires cut to the right length – a so called counterpoise. You can buy a commercial one called the KISS SSB counterpoise, which we just got so I have not had time to really test it out.)

If the problem is power related:

Ensure the SSB radio is wired directly to the batteries (using appropriate wire and fuses on both + and – wires). You want to avoid having the autopilot and radio share the same wires to/from the batteries. The radio will cause voltage fluctuations, potentially quite large if the wires are not thick enough. Don’t run them through a common house DC panel.

Add large capacitors in parallel (eg across + and – power lines). Place these near to the AP22.

Hope this helps.

Van

Hi All, I am servicing my NECO 17DR8 motor here in Colombia, and wondered if anyone knows what grade of oil should go in it. The manual says Castrol Magna. The modern version of that states that “Castrol Magna lubricating oils are suitable for a variety of applications such as the lubrication of bearings, spindles and, using the heavier viscosity grades, moderately loaded gearboxes.

Therefore the modern Magna ISO 220 (their heavier grade) would be an SAE 50 in crankcase oil, or an SAE 90 in gearbox oil terms.

So am thinking go for any SAE 90 gearbox mineral oil?

Any pointers from those engineers amongst you?

Thanks so much,

Duncan

Overhaul of Neco 17DR8

NECO 17DR8 gets an overhaul in Cartagena, Colombia.
The motor’s movement was getting a bit ‘sticky’, the relays and supply all seemed fine, so we investigated the motor itself.
In case you were wondering what goes on inside one of these motors, after 49 years….
Changed the coil, the bearings, and the brushes, and the retainers. General clean up and repaint.
I haven’t had the bill, yet but am assured it is many hours work. Something to do in a country like Colombia where technicians are used to repairing things (and labour costs are relatively low).

I have more images if anyone is interested, but can’t be added here.

Photos 11-14 of Neco overhaul in post above. END