@ilmatar-met
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HiJohn
Totally agree with Marilyn and Czarina blue
If possible, avoid reversing, most of the time you will be at the mercy of the gods. If you really have to, follow the advice of the manual, initiate your turn by going ahead and then go in reverse.
In general, I would say the Nic 38 needs a firm hand in manoeuvring. Going slow and giving your Nic short and soft bursts of throttle will often result in her drifting off without any control. Try to make a simple plan, do your manoeuvre in max 2 or three stages (swing forward, backward, forward) and use a generous amount of throttle whilst turning.
But also, just accept that you will never be cruising along backwards through a busy harbour like more modern keeled boats can. I find it almost impossible to maintain a straight line in reverse for more than 10 meters, especially if there is any wind. Working with lines/ropes to get the boat in or out of a berth is probably your best option.
Regards,
Erik
Hi Marilyn
Thanks for explaining, have been searching and searching everywhere for those tanks.Thought i was going crazy but happy to hear we just don’t have them 🙂
Erik
Hi
I would assume some sort of aluminium mesh should be available for a fair price at your local DIY store. And why not mild steel? just make sure you paint it with a few layers of spray paint. Third option is what Ollie Holden suggested, some sort of (semi) riggid soundproofing material held in place with screws and large washers. Had it in my previous boat and works absolutely fine. In the “Ilmatar” we have a new teak cockpit floor installed by the P.O. Here the soundproofing is fixed with a wooden frame around it seems to hold good and is very heavy and rugged helping against vibrations.
Erik
Hi Lawrence. Thanks for your answer. Very true, totally agree. It is what it is, it is inevitable and it probably is what makes it all worthwhile. Good to be reminded of that because I sometimes notice that while preparing for a trip like this, there is the risk of over preparing and trying to cover every what-if. Contingency planning is good but its easy over do it.
I spoke to a guy at “boot dusseldorf” who has been planning his circumnavigation for 15 years now and wasn’t even close to leaving. It was never good enough, each time there was new bit of gear to be bought, more books to be read or others factors to be considered. He had about four times our budget and a ten year old Hallberg Rassy 42, but I don’t think he will ever untie his lines and leave
Hi All
Thanks for the many replies! As said in the previous post, we have visited the “boot dusseldorf” exhibition, which has been very useful and interesting. For three days we ran around the endless fair grounds and spoke to several builders, manufacturers, sales people, sailors and self proclaimed experts.
In the end we decided that the auxiliary rudder vs servo-pendulum discussion will stay forever undecided. Both systems seem to work fine and have a great number of “believers” all strong advocates for their system of choice and in general strongly opposed to the other “side”. Both systems have We say it’s a draw.
After leaving that issue behind, the price factor suddenly became decisive and this is where the servo pendulum system wins big time. So we decided to go for servo pendulum. We then narrowed down to three larger manufacturers: Aries, Monitor and Windpilot. Prices are all roughly the same, so we compared on other variables such as build quality, after-sales and availability of parts.Aries has recently been taken over by a young guy from Amsterdam, who stole our harts with his honesty, enthusiasm and willingness to help us with the installation. But looking at the wind vane system itself; the aluminium cast bits are pretty crude and not finished very well. Also the system is much heavier and larger than the other two.
Monitor and Windpilot are very similar. The designs look well made, robust, and are made with attention to detail, Both manufacturers are friendly and willing to offer a lot of information (at least the people we spoke to), Spare parts are easily available (even for older models) and both have a good network of sellers worldwide. The biggest differences between the two we could find where the type of material used and the the mounting system. Monitor is made out of stainless steel and attached to the boat by several mounting tubes. Windpilot is made out of aluminium and has a very simple and in our eyes pretty briljant mounting construction. It is light, easily adjustable and fits almost any type of transom.Although I am sure that the Monitor system works perfectly as well, the simplicity of the Windpilot idea struck me. Combined with the fact that they are based in Germany and not the US, which saved us about 400 euros in shipping/import costs. Made us choose for the Windpilot Pacific. If it was a good choice remains to be seen but based on the our budget, needs and the above expressed considerations, it was the best choice for use. Hopefully it can be of help for others as well
Another interesting idea we picked up by talking to people at the fair (this idea was mentioned by several different people) is to attach the lines of the wind vane not to the steering wheel in the cockpit but to the emergency tiller. If you remove the cap covering the emergency tiller attachment point and come up with some kind of adapter piece (basically a mini version of the emergency tiller) One could easily attach the lines to that. I checked this on the boat itself and see absolutely no reason why this should not work. Has any one else done this already or seen this on other boats? Seems like a great idea or am i missing something here?
Regards, Erik
Adding to the last post. I just found some interesting views on the Hydrovane system. I have to say that I was pretty convinced that Hydrovane has the superior system for our boats but this sheds a different light. Always could to read some “different” opinions (without suggesting any truths)
http://www.selfsteer.com/faqs/faq.php?ID=248
http://svmomo.blogspot.nl/2010/05/expression-of-doubt-is-hydrovane-self_15.htmlAs far as i can discover there are nicholsons owners using Monitor and Aries. Anyone? experiences?
Hoi Lawrence
Thanks for your answer. Well no need to feel foolish and naive as I see it 🙂 I thought of your suggestion as well. Just finding a hydrovane system and copying it. Shouldn’t be to hard since the individual parts are pretty straight forward pieces of engineering. I have searched the internet for people that might have done the same (can’t be the first one with this problem/solution) but no luck as of yet.
There are of course a few downsides to this approach. Firstly the ethical side of it. It doesn’t feel entirely right to just copy someone else’s design. Although I find the hydrovane system very overpriced. These are just hard working people as well trying to make a living of a product that is sold in low volumes and has a lot of r&d behind it. (which might explain part of high price)
Secondly if you attempt a copy it needs to be absolutely fool proof/good. It is a piece of pretty essential (safety) kit especially on long voyages. Not something you want to go wrong at 3 in the morning on an idle tuesday in building seas and strong winds (stuff always seems to break at these moments)
Thirdly, time is an issue. Although do-able it is not going to be easy and I reckon it will cost a lot of hours drawing, engineering, testing, retrying, etc. before you end up with a trustworthy system. Could end up being a lot more expensive than initially anticipated.
Conclusion: Although tempting I’m not going for this. Coming week we will be visiting “Boot Dusseldorf” where we will be doing more research and will speak with several manufacturers of WV-steering systems. Will keep you posted on the results…
Regards,
Erik
Hi Peter
That is of great help, exactly what i needed. Photos tell you so much more. Our chain is currently stacked all the way up front (where you have the white triangular piece of board) I will be copying your set up. Thanks a lot.
Erik
Dear Ollie
Thanks for the pictures. Makes everything a lot clearer. What a job, that’s basically rebuilding the whole boat!!! Very interested in more pictures of the progress of your work.
Regards,
Erik
Hi Ollie
Sounds like a pretty extensive refit. Since we are outfitting Ilmatar in the coming year for long distance travels/blue water cruising, we are very interested in some of the work you are doing, especially replacing all the corroded, weak deck fitting, chainplates etc. So all pictures are more then welcome and greatly appreciated
Regards,
Erik
Hi guys
We are currently working on the anchor chain set up as wel. The previous owner of Ilmatar removed the deck anchor locker and the original down pipe. Replacing the original pipe by a shorter more vertical plastic pipe. It seems to work fine but the anchor chain is now stored really far forward and high into the bow, I prefer a lower center of gravity and am not to happy with all that weight that far forward. So my plan is to keep the modified pipe construction but going back to the more original chain locker space under the two forward bunks. Major modifications aren’t that much of a problem since I’m converting/redesigning the forward cabin and sleeping arrangement anyway
Peter and duncan. Could you maybe upload some photos of the situation on your Nic. Maybe I can use some of your ideas. would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Erik
