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Since I have removed both masts this year (and as previously noted, found that the insulation of most wires up the main mast is crumbling to dust) I have asked the yard to advise on installing a removal forestay. We have agreed on an attachment point about 8″ down from the mast head, but haven’t decided on the deck attachment point. It has been suggested that the rope capstan on my Lofran Tigres windlass would serve OK, but a delivery skipper advised (as he fixed a bracket to the strongest point on the bow putting a bolt or bolts to secure it right through the bow stem) that the foredeck is probably not strong enough without substantial reinforcement, preferably with a rod to the lower part of the bow stem in a 38’s case, since in a real blow (as I regularly experience in my armchair) the deck can get ripped out.
Any thoughts or experiences?
Adrian.
Hi Adrian,
Your delivery skipper is probably right. In my 38 a ss wire (you can remove and install it like a short part of rigging) was installed connected to the lower bow and to the deck where the attachment was to the removable forestay.Whether you really need it?? I crossed the North Atlantic without it but was lucky and had no winds stronger then Bf 8.
Kind regards
Gerard Fischer
I’m considering attaching a U shaped tang (if that’s the right term) to the mast at the bolt where the main cap shroud tangs are attached. My presumption is that because this point is strong enough to take the sideways load of the shrouds, it should be strong enough to take the forward load of the forestay. I’ll simply need to get a longer bolt to make room for the thickness of the tang. I’ll connect the forestay to the bottom of the “U”. I’ve not worked out the dimensions yet, but it needs to be long enough to provide a fair lead for the stay, and strong enough to handle the forces. I’m assuming the working tension will be similar to the tension on the backstay (1,200 lbs) which is a bit more than the typical tension on a halyard (about 1000 lbs). The main worry I have with this idea is that the U will lay against the halyards when not in use, or get in the way somehow.
The attachment point at the deck is a bit tricky because of the new roller furler drum, and a windlass just forward of the bollard. That part of the deck is strong, however there is not a lot of room there. Also, I hate the idea of yet another hole in the deck, and the effort of reinforcing it, etc. So, my current plan is to use two pendants – one attached to the hole in the stem fitting that is meant for the boom foreguy (i.e. the aftmost hole) and the other attached to the bollard possibly by the addition of a hole and shackle in the bollard). Then, the two pendants and the deck form a triangle at the top of which is attached the removable forestay, and by adjusting the length of the two pendants, I can move the lower end of the forestay forward or aft. This also has the advantage of sharing the load between two known strong points that are already plenty strong enough. (In fact, probably 90% of the load will be on the stem fitting).
My rigger is recommending Dynex DUX for the stay as it does not creep.
Lastly, I have a storm jib in excellent condition that was made for hanking onto the forestay. I’m hoping it will fit well enough. That’s a motivation for keeping the removable forestay as close to the actual forestay as possible.
Van
I have a deck fitting with a folding eye just behind the stem fitting. This is bolted through the deck with 3 bolts to an identical fitting beneath the deck. Through the reinforcing ‘web’ right behind the bows I drilled a hole (with right angled drill) to take another single eyebolt with an eye on its ‘nut’ as well. So there are these two eyes in this ‘web’ which are lashed to the eye under the deckhead with 3m of spectra line and frapped up tight. Works like a dream. Next time I am on board (probably after Xmas now) I will get pictures of this arrangement and email them to you
Prior to cruising installed a ‘solent’ stay. Put an eye bolt on the mast head appro. 12″ below the mast head sheaves to accept the upper stay, and at the deck (I hate drilling holes in the boat) removed the 2 after bolts from the centre staghorn ‘bitts’ and fashoned a ‘U’ bolt which replaced the previous bolts and which allowed an ‘eye’ to pick up the lower attachment for the stay.
To beef up the underdeck I glassed in to the inner stem an angled mini bulkhead sufficient to attach a turnbuckle which in turn attached to the underside of the “U’ bolt protrusions at the deckhead. I have pics. if anyone is interested-Race Passage.Most interesting posts: if the removable forestay is primarily to take a storm jib, then I imagine its deck attachment is best set back somewhat from the standing forestay in order to produce a better slot with the main? Dynex sounds an interesting material, but on the FAQ sheet ( http://www.colligomarine.com/docs/misc/DynexDuxFAQ.pdf ) I read “The base fiber for Dynex Dux is Dyneema SK-75. It is widely known as the best synthetic fiber for UV resistance….. with the data we have today, we can easily predict a life of 5 years or more for UV exposure. This compares to an 8 year recommended replacement interval for steel. We also believe, as new data comes in, that the life expectancy will go up”. I’m not so sure that this makes this the ideal material for me quite yet, but nearly!
I should very much value photos Trevor and Race Passage of your installments; both your solutions sound much preferable to my boatyard’s suggestions.
Adrian.
Many thanks Roger, my address is adrian-weston@tiscali.co.uk
Roger sent me his photos, so now I can post them for all to see.
Earlier in this thread, Roger explained how he added his solent stay:
No photo for this part:
Quote:…Put an pad eye on the mast head appro. 12″ below the mast head sheaves to accept the upper stay, and at the deck …Photo below shows:
Quote:removed the 2 after bolts from the centre staghorn ‘bitts’ and fashoned a ‘U’ bolt which replaced the previous bolts and which allowed an ‘eye’ to pick up the lower attachment for the stay.Photo below shows:
Quote:To beef up the underdeck I glassed in to the inner stem an angled mini bulkhead sufficient to attach a turnbuckle which in turn attached to the underside of the “U’ bolt protrusions at the deckhead.
Roger, your solution seems elegant and I think one to emulate except that the mini-bulkhead attached to the bow stem seems insufficiently robust to withstand possible storm forces such as a large wave taking away the storm jib; I must emphasise that I am completely ignorant about such issues, but was cautioned by an Ocean Yachtmaster (all kneel) in Aberystwyth that a removable forestay should be attached to the strongest point of the bow, preferably with a solution involving bolts through the stem. I wonder how Trevor’s installation compares.
Can you advise in what conditions you have tested your installation? I wonder who could advise on how extensive the bonding between attachement point and hull need be: perhaps a marine architect?! I am sailing with one next year, and shall make enquiries.
Regards, Adrian.
Ah – come’on Adrian. You’re amongst friends here – and its a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word.
BTW – Google Chrome has an automatic spell checker – it’s working right now for me as I write this. I guess IE has an add-in too.
Cheers – your lazy moderatorRevisiting this topic. We recently met with Port Townsend Rigging (very well respected rigger here in the Pacific Northwest) and had an interesting conversation about this (I did not prompt him with any of the solutions suggested above). Firstly, the rigger suggested adding a U bolt to the bollard was likely to be a good connection (per Roger). He suggested the center bolts or if it’s possible to get a fair lead, the forward bolts – we are looking at using the solent stay for hanking on a drifter and for that you want it as far forward as possible (but not too close to the forestay).
He also thought that putting a double folding eye forward of the bollard and underneath attaching that to the fiberglass plate under the stem fitting (which you can see in the photo above) would also work (per Ronar). Finally, it took him a while to grok my idea of using pennants from the bollard and stem fitting, but he liked that idea too! It uses two existing strong points, and requires no mods to the deck.
What was most interesting was his reaction when we talked about the construction of the deck – first class, super strong. I think that’s why he was comfortable with all three solutions.
For the mast fitting, he’s recommended a “staysail bracket” from LeFiell (lefiellmarine.com), riveted to the mast just under the cap shroud tangs. I guess they are about $90.
We do have one complication. The previous owner installed a windlass just forward of the bollard, and to do so, he cut one athwartships stringer and a couple of longitudinal stringers. This has weakened the deck, and you can see it move when loads are placed on it (by the windlass or by a person stepping on it). This is not good, and the rigger has recommended chopping out the cut stringers, grinding the surface and installing a 3/8″ tempered aluminum plate under that area (including under the windlass). I think we’ll do that, perhaps next year.
Cheers,
Van
Hello Roger,
Been looking at your inner forestay setup, I will be fitting an inner forestay over the winter, with a dual purpose of being able to fly a second genoa during normal sailing, and a jib when wind gets up, I have seen similar on other boats and they look good in full flight.
I like your arrangement using the staghorn aft bolt holes to for an eye as a fixing point, seems to be the most logical point just forward of my winch, and I shall be going as high as I can on the mast without interfering with the main forestay, my rigger is recommending a fitting for the mast and new external halyard.
From a more practical point of view, if you use it as a companion to your genoa, how does the tacking work for you, as the gap reduced when tacking, I imagine it will mean the genoa being furled in preparation to tack, then going though the wind with the inner and when on course relaunching the genoa. The benefits of not dragging the genoa around the inner stay are obvious in terms of wear and tear.Regards
Mike
I am pasting a reply I got from Roger Haggar via email. You can find the photos he mentions in a PDF that opens here.
Quote:Whilst I fitted the inner forestay (solent stay) for my trip south didn’t find much use for it.
Yes, I found that the easiest way to tack was to roll up the headsail, tack over and unfurl. (Offshore the tack, or gybe, was a major highlight and discussion as we only had to do it once every 3 days!)Visited the boat today and took some pics which might be of interest, and that is what to do with the stay when not in use.
In use-connected to the deck fitting with a senhouse slip connected to and hardened up with a turnbuckle.
When not in use-disconnected and attached slip to a s/s ring lashed to after lower stay chain plate.Then with the mini block and tackle arrangement attached to the forward lower chain plate slipped the s/s rounded section ‘gizmo’ over the bight of the stay and hardened up. This arrangement worked very well, with the stay out of the way and far enough away from the mast to avoid chafe.
Yesterday tried to find the source of the gizmo without luck. I first saw it in use in Seattle so think that it may be a US item. works well though.
Also drew, not v. well, prefab. section bolted approx. 12″ below mast head, clear of sheaves and spinnaker block. Top hole is for the stay tang and lower hole the halyard block shackle.
Hope this helps.
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